Feminist Guest On MSBNC Says Americans See Misogyny 'As A Given For Young Men'

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Tonight on All In with Chris Hayes, Guardian columnist and founder of Feministing Jessica Valenti was on to discuss the Twitter hashtag #YesAllWomen and the broader topic of misogyny as it relates to the killings in Santa Barbara over the weekend. The alleged murderer left behind an internet history and a manifesto overflowing with resentment of women, bitterness over rejection by women, and barely contained hatred seemingly for the very idea of women as individual human beings. It was this history that prompted the discussion that led to the following exchange:

HAYES: If that was an anti-Semitic manifesto, if it was a white supremacist manifesto, if it was a jihadi manifesto, everyone would view it in clear and stark ideological terms unquestionably.

VALENTI: Right, we don't see misogyny as an ideology, we see it as a given for young men.

Valenti's comment caused some Twitter exchanges tonight, including one with John Podhoretz. The columnist tweeted the quote, and was accused of taking it out of context, for which he apologized. Here is Valenti's explanation to him.

.@jpodhoretz Ok, a remedial lesson for you: We should see misogyny as an ideology, instead we see it (wrongly) as a given for men.

— Jessica Valenti (@JessicaValenti) May 28, 2014

While there is some truth in what host Chris Hayes says about viewing ideology as a root cause of violence, and therefore some truth to Valenti's point about viewing misogyny as such, that is not the sum of Valenti's point, or point of view.

Valenti says we see it as a given for young men, but that we shouldn't. That doesn't mean, as she is implying to Podhoretz, that she doesn't think all or most young men engage in misogynistic behavior. She is implicitly suggesting, and also explicitly says earlier in the interview, that men, especially young men, feel empowered to be misogynist because it is seen as a given. She even says "it's not unusual to hear men say these kinds of things," meaning the things said in the manifesto. In other words, precisely what Podhoretz was interpreting. She isn't saying, obviously, that we see it as a given, even though hardly any men feel that way. That's just not logical.

#YesAllWomen Because misogyny is an ideology, not a given.

— Jessica Valenti (@JessicaValenti) May 27, 2014

Consider what she wrote this weekend: "Rodger, like most young American men, was taught that he was entitled to sex and female attention." Emphasis added. Or "I have to wonder how much police dismissed Rodger's video rants because of the expectation that violent misogyny in young men is normal and expected." Normal and expected. Misogynists "are created by our culture," she says, and we tell them "their hatred is both commonplace and justified." Again, emphasizing the idea that it is widespread.

And this does not even address the prevailing feminist definitions of misogyny in the first place, where even marriage is referred to as a "heteronormative, sex-negative, patriarchal system of partnership." What exactly is it that is "a given"? Truly, and sadly,American youths are taught to expect sex to be frequent, easily attainable, and free of consequence, as she suggests. But that is not the same thing as saying violent hatred of women is tolerated and even expected.

Valenti is suggesting that misogyny is commonplace, accepted, tolerated, and treated as normal by American culture. To repeat, she thinks it is commonplace. But on Twitter she is outraged that John Podhoretz quoted her and it sounded bad? A quibble at best. After all, she is the same person who wrote this: