On MSNBC on Tuesday night, Lawrence O'Donnell was talking to reporter Tony Dokoupil who is on the scene in Oregon at the National Wildlife Refuge building standoff, when they discussed one man who was at first hiding completely beneath a blue tarp while the camera was on. Eventually he uncovered in order to participate in an interview.

LaVoy Finicum, 55, claimed to have warrants out in his name, but revised that when the on-air interview began. Finicum had a rifle under the tarp and told MSNBC that he would not spend any time in a cell. Asked if he would rather be dead than live in a cell, he answered "absolutely."

Finicum briefly argued that the issues the protesters are fighting for include federalism and constitutional authority, but most of the interview was regarding what he would do if the police came to take him into custody. MSNBC's Dokoupil worked hard to get a direct statement that Finicum would use deadly force against authorities but did not get it so directly.

Finicum: I have no death wish. I love life. I have 20 grandkids. Actually I have 19 and two on the way.

Dokoupil: Okay, 19 and 2 on the way. So you've got something to live with.

Finicum: I have something to live for.

Dokoupil: But you're prepared to die.

Finicum: I'm prepared to defend freedom.

Finicum, who is Mormon, told MSNBC that he does not speak for or represent his church.